microphone pict Max Papis: Everyone is Stretched to the Limit
Peter Burke interviews Arciero Wells driver Max Papis

©1996 SpeedCenter Internet Publishing, Inc.

Exclusive Interview

SpeedCenter Photographer, Peter Burke, interviewed Arciero Wells driver Max Papis at Road America, on August 16, 1996

"The most sensible approach you have to do when you run in a car that you don't know, is not to outbrake the car"
Max Papis
SpeedCenter: "Max, how do you approach a new track and how do you learn a new track that you have never been to - like Elkhart Lake this weekend - especially if you are in a car you are not quite familiar with. It's your second race in an Indy car this week?"

Max Papis: "When you start at a new track, the first thing you have to do - the most important thing you have to do - is first of all: walk around the track on foot. Have an exact look at the bumps, where black lines are that usually other people put there tires in, and to see the consistency of the curbs. You know - inner and outside curbing, if you can use them or not, and [to see] the way the runoff is in the corners.

"Secondly: What I do is I ask my engineer [about] the gearing position that they were using the previous year, or I make my own decision based on my experience; watching if it's a tight [rpm] band or if it's not too tight.

"So, this is how I do it: I walk the track, I go back to the pit and I think. I talk to my engineer and I do [it] again: I run the track - after I memorize the track I spend some time with my engineer, I put [on] my jogging pants and run the track. And so I put exactly my mind and I do exactly like if I was in the racecar. Exactly the same line by foot that you do in a racecar.

"The most sensible approach you have to do when you run in a car that you don't know, is not to outbrake the car. Always try to be very smooth and gentle on the brake, instead of trying to go faster [by] braking later, I try to go faster braking less. Always less and less, and, you know, always braking a little bit further down but not braking strong - always braking less, to be able to carry good speed. This is basically what I do."

SpeedCenter: "And how long does it take you until you feel absolutely at home on a track. How many laps or visits to the track? Is it on the first weekend?"

Max Papis: "Depending if you know the car very well or if you don't know the car very well?"

SpeedCenter: "For example, people say Bobby Rahal has this advantage at Mid Ohio, because he has driven thousands of laps there. Is there a level you get to after years of going back to a certain track that you know every bump and all the different lines?"

Max Papis: "Actually, you know, it's only one line in the corner - one consistent and fast line. That's my personal point of view. After you have done a course for some time, you know it - that's it. The major thing is how long [of a] seat time you have had that allowed you actually to have the confidence in the car and know that the car can do that, or can't do that."

SpeedCenter: "That's what you are still working on?"

Max Papis: "Yes. you know - I tell you, if I am in Mid Ohio, or if I am in Elkhart in my Ferrari, to me it takes an average of 10 to 12 or 15 laps to feel at home, to find the limit and know exactly where you are. With a new car it takes a little bit longer, because you reach the limit much slower. That's the only difference."

SpeedCenter: "You don't know exactly what to do to make it reach the limit?"

Max Papis: "You don't know the reaction of the car and that's why sometimes it takes a little longer."

"You have to carry speed, you have [to] not brake too late; and not to outbrake the car, and, actually, you have to really float the car in the corner."
Max Papis
SpeedCenter: "That leads into another question. Some of our fans are asking about the difference between the WSC cars and Indy cars. Factors like downforce, top speed, acceleration, brakes."

Max Papis: "The major difference between the two cars is that one is turbocharged and the other is not. This makes a bit of a difference, because - you know - the two engines in these cars you drive in a different way. The turbocharger causes a little bit of a delay; with the non-turbocharged, the normally aspirated engine, the drivability is a little bit higher. Actually, what I can say about the difference between the two cars is that there is not much of a difference like from Formula 1 to the sports car. The sports car and the Indy car are not so different. The style of driving is similar, because you have to carry a lot of speed in the corner; Formula 1 are a much more alive cars. Braking: you brake very very deep, and acceleration, you know, you go on the throttle very early. With [an] Indy car, it is a more 'evoluted' IMSA [car]. That's what I can call it."

SpeedCenter: "Is that because of the downforce an IndyCar develops?"

Max Papis: "Yeah. Actually, in the fast bends, you are faster than an IMSA [car] because you have more downforce, but the style of driving is very similar. You have to carry speed, you have [to] not brake too late; and not to outbrake the car, and, actually, you have to really float the car in the corner. What I found [to be] the major difference between these two cars [WSC and Indy car], is that the difference is basically the tires. With WSC you have a sidewall of the tire [that is] much smaller, that make the car a little bit more stable in the fast bends. With the Indy car you have a little bit higher sidewall, so the car just leans on the tire a little more. That's the major difference. Otherwise they are both very big fun to drive. But the difference within themselves is the approach you have. Basically the difference is in the very fast bends."

SpeedCenter: "And here at Elkhart, which bends would that be? The Caroussel?"

Max Papis: "One of the corners where it makes a lot of difference here is the turn after the Caroussel, the fast bend to the right. That sweep to the right is very demanding. That actually is a corner that you really feel the difference between the WSC and the Indy car. And in turn 1 as well."

"You never throw the car. I always try to be as smooth as I can."
Max Papis
SpeedCenter: "While we are talking about going fast: we have received a question asking about your fast runs at Daytona. People said that this was a 'banzai run' - how did those runs come about. Were they also really smooth runs, carrying the speed through the corners that late in the race, or was it late braking, pushing hard?"

Max Papis: "You never throw the car. I always try to be as smooth as I can. Even when at those conditions [at Daytona], the car was very difficult. There was a lot of oil on the track. That is why I was correcting a lot, exiting the corners, because I was trying to apply the power as early as possible. I was going a lot sideways exiting the corner due to the track conditions at the moment and due to the reason that I was carrying a lot of speed in the corners. And that's why I was not so 'tidy.' But I was making a lot of speed forward. Plus with all the traffic, you know, it was not so easy."

"You know, the thing is, you must have a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of respect for the ovals. Respect."
Max Papis
SpeedCenter: "There is this big question about ovals. Have you ever raced on an oval?"

Max Papis: "No."

SpeedCenter: "What do you expect? We have asked Mark Blundell the same question and he said that, and I quote here, "I had a big shock when I first went. It's the toughest form of racing I have ever done." The question we have is how do you plan to prepare for that? We know there is spring training, but is there any other test run that you are planning on during the fall or winter?"

Max Papis: "Definitely, the team is going to take me to a couple of ovals before the end of the season to have a look. Nazareth and Milwaukee. So I can have the first grip to the ovals. I already have had the opportunity to do a 'half oval' - Texas and Daytona - and it looked demanding. I never really ran on ovals, but you know, these looked very demanding and actually I think I would have to get ready mentally. You know, the thing is, you must have a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of respect for the ovals. Respect."

"Because, you know, people here it seems haven't forgotten yet who is behind the wheel, who builds up things, who makes everything is always a human being"
Max Papis
SpeedCenter: "How do you feel about the whole climate in IndyCar. The access to the fans for example. Do you know any of the other drivers? We know you are a friend of Alex Zanardi - do you know any of the others and how do you feel in this group of drivers?"

Max Papis: "Actually, I have had a long relationship with Alex, Gil DeFerran, I know Andre Ribeiro quite well, but the two that I know the best are Alex and Gil - and Christian Fittipaldi as well.

"You know, I am very glad that I discovered USA-motor racing, because the approach to motor racing is true. Here [what] is important [is] the sport. The competition is at a very high level. It's [about] sport and [the] human being. Because, you know, people here it seems haven't forgotten yet who is behind the wheel, who builds up things, who makes everything is always a human being. These are the things I appreciate the most, and I really like the fans coming over to me, because this is one of the things that make you feel you do a special job. The reason why I push very hard and I try to go on the limit is for the people that are there watching. And motivation: I look for motivation. I have my own motivation, but you look all the time for new ways to go faster; to find new motivation. And one [element] of this motivation is really the people watching that really cheer you on. To be able to win and make them happy is part of my job."

SpeedCenter: "In IndyCar racing, it is the rules that make the cars more equal, focusing the attention that way more on the team and driver. What do you think about the other parts of the rules package - the yellow flags, especially full course yellows. Some of our European readers are very opposed to full course yellows, thinking this rule distorts the picture of true competition. How do you feel about this?"

Max Papis: "What I can tell you is that I have experienced both situations. Winning situations in IMSA with Ferrari, and, you know, middle of the field here in IndyCar. I can tell you that at some stage it can be a little frustrating, but you have to deal with it. I think it's a good solution, especially in a very difficult situation. But you don't have to abuse it. My personal point of view is that you don't have to abuse it. If it's a car in the runoff, you don't put the full course yellow out. You take the car out. You have a crane and lift the car off, take it away and put it in the right place. That wouldn't spoil the race. The race is spoiled when it's an abuse of the yellow flag."

"I think - in sports - there are people who have to learn to be winners and then there are winners. You can't put them both together. There are two separate races in the same race, so I think the show is very important."
Max Papis
SpeedCenter: "Some of the fans, mostly some of our European readers, feel that IndyCar may occasionally call a full course yellow to 'bunch up the field' and to improve the show. There is an element of improving 'the show' in some of the new rules, like for example the new restart rule that puts the lead lap cars together. People who look for 'pure racing,' like many of our European readers who are comparing this series with Formula 1, are not in favor of that."

Max Papis: "You know, it doesn't matter. I think - in sports - there are people who have to learn to be winners and then there are winners. You can't put them both together. There are two separate races in the same race, so I think the show is very important. The only thing is: you don't have to spoil it. That's what I said. I think yellow flags is a very good rule, especially because you keep the rhythm. You don't stop the race course - maybe the problem with yellow flags in the States is that some tracks are not really up to the standards of a European track [regarding removal equipment]. So that's the reason why there are a lot of yellow flags, even at this [track]. If we were in Europe, the yellow flag would come out much less than on some tracks here in the States. Some tracks are perfect, but some others are still getting better. So that's my personal point of view.

"You know you can deal with it [yellow flags] and, you know, for me it's nicer to see a very close race in the last 20 to 30 laps, but that doesn't mean that is someone has a 30 second lead in the last 20 laps you must put out a yellow because you need to close down the gap. That, you don't need. The show is done by race cars but you don't have to spoil it. If someone is the leader and he deserves to win, he deserves to win."

SpeedCenter: "You said you are running mid-field. You are running a Toyota engine and they are known to win the championship in all the racing series they enter. How soon do you think you are going to be competitive beyond mid-field? Next year? Late next year?"

Max Papis: "You know, this is a good question. I am an official Ferrari driver. The reason why I put myself into this program in IndyCar is because I have a lot of trust in Toyota and the team. We are in a long-term program and we are getting better every time. I can promise you - I tested one of the first evolution engines they had in the beginning of the season and one of the latest ones we had for Mid Ohio, and it was like day and night. They are working very hard and they are progressing a lot. Don't forget, this is the first season. And a new engine in it's first season in a very, very competitive series; much more than what the European can think; because here, you know, everyone is stretched to the limit. This means, you need experience, both, from the team and the engine manufacturer. They are learning fast and have great confidence. I think the team will start to have results in the middle of the next year. That's my personal feeling."

"I owe a lot to Ferrari. I am very loyal to the people at Ferrari and Team Momo who took me over here."
Max Papis
SpeedCenter: "You are an official Ferrari driver. Will you continue to drive for Ferrari next season? Is there a conflict in the schedule? The IndyCar schedule is not official yet, but if you can, will you run both series?"

Max Papis: "I owe a lot to Ferrari. I am very loyal to the people at Ferrari and Team Momo who took me over here. Without them I wouldn't be here talking to you or even in IndyCar. I have two goals: my number one goal this year is to win the WSC championship for me and for Ferrari, and win the IMSA championship overall. And, secondly, to bring in my knowledge and getting the knowledge from the [Arciero Wells] team to become a better driver in IndyCar.

For next year, my two goals are: I would really like to drive an IndyCar for the full season, and during the same time keep my relation with Ferrari, trying to compete in the important races like Daytona 24 hours, Le Mans 24 hours, and maybe trying to attempt at one of the GTS races for Ferrari. That's what we are trying to do next year."

SpeedCenter: "Thank you very much for taking the time to answer our questions."

Max Papis: "It's been a pleasure."